1. sheree waks? testing
2. Bach-ing Madeline? Good afternoon everyone. Good morning to my sister if she is watching in England.
3. Sarah Shrubb? Hi all.
4. Tony MORROW? Here
5. Bach-ing Madeline? Hi Sarah :)
6. Philip Lambert? Philip Lambert
7. Enrico Brik? Hear, hear, Peter
8. Bach-ing Madeline ?I don't recognise my native country now. And don't think it can't happen here.
9. Enrico Brik? I'm not sure though that the Chinese phenomenon is a cultural one (a la Huntingdon), but rather a complex combination of the totalitarian ideology with Confucianism
10. Andris Heks ?Islamic theocracy, CCP autocracy, and transnational Western autocratic capitalism all reject either formally or in practice the universal human rights
11. David Sanderson? We are far more threatened by radical Christianity, which is especially apparent in the USA. Muslims are small minorities in Western countries and are much more threatened than they are threatening.
12. Andris Heks ?It is ultraright fundamentalist Christianity, making a mockery of Christ.
13. Bach-ing Madeline? In what way David. I heard the same talking points in exactly the same wording from a lefti leaning person a couple of weeks ago. Sounded like it was lifted out of the media indoctrination
14. David Sanderson ?Trump is in office because of the currents of 'Western civilisation superiority' and radical Christanity. Trump and the forces of reaction and authoritarianism that he represents are the real threat.
15. David Sanderson? Peter is grossly exaggerating the impact of political correctness. Political correctness can go too far but the idea that it is a significant threat to freedom of speech is just a nonsense.
16. Bach-ing Madeline? And filling his administration with Muslim
17. Bach-ing Madeline? Mulsim brotherhood adherents.
18. Andris Heks? Both Trumpianism and China's autocracy are 'real threat' against democracy.
19. Bach-ing Madeline? It's a huge threat to freedom of speech in that people are now self censoring and going along to get along because of the aggression of objectors to their speech and deplatforming of R W speakers
20. Philip Lambert? How do you overturn the moneychangers in the temple of the ascendant cultural regime? One person said to have attempted that was arrested and crucified. Ironically the iconoclast is now used cynically
21. David Horrocks ?Hi, can the presenters give an opinion as to the idea that the Westminster System of government weakens the power of representation of a whole society as against the opinions of minor interests
22. David Sanderson? The problem with the Ramsey Centre is that it wanted to operate outside normal academic parameters with control from an outside board. It was actually a threat to academic freedom, as proposed.
23. sheree waks? as well as Saudi funding of specific islamic studies programmes there were around 10,000 Saudi students studying here pre-Covid, all on govt scholarships.
24. simon last name? you have rightly identified the problem, but what is the answer? how do we encourage people to think critically without taking offence
25. sheree waks? Most go home post-study, though some females in particular have found Australia with its liberal values to be attractive as an alternative longterm home
26. sheree waks? My daughter was one of only 2 or 3 non-Saudi students in the highest level Arabic class at Sydney Uni a few years ago
27. Tony MORROW? Webster in the Domain was an orator to behold
28. David Sanderson ?The notion that Muslim's are humourless fanatics is such an awful caricature. Perhaps Peter should get to know a few Muslims.
29. Andris Heks ?PETER: Please open up the comments section under your blurb for this live stream, under 'show less'
30. Bach-ing Madeline? Like the girls in Rotherham, Telford, Huddersfield have?
31. sheree waks? there is in particular a widespread love of cartoons and satire that ridicule Mohammed
32. Andris Heks? John, India and other developing democracies also brought out millions of people of property without China's autocratic regime tyrannising the population
33. simon last name? Mighty peter, Islam or islamists ?
34. sheree waks? He already talked about POLITICAL Islam as being the problem
35. Andris Heks? Just as Islamic theocracy, the CCP does not separate
36. David Sanderson? These readings by Peter of the Bible and the Koran are frankly ridiculous. it would be perfectly easy to choose passages from the Bible that are incompatible with liberal democracy.
37. Enrico Brik ?Both fundamental Islam religiously and the CCP ideologically repudiate universal human rights and especially the core notion of freedom of speech and conscience.
38. Robert Tobias ?It is absurd and dangerous (I believe) to see identity politics as a 'kind of intellectual immune disorder' preventing 'Western civilisation from seeing clearly the threats it faces.
39. Robert Tobias ?Peter, haven't you set yourself in opposition to an extreme form of identity politics?
40. Tony MORROW? I'm with Ferguson...Western Democracies removed religion from governing bodies about 5 or more centuries ago...the fundamentalist christians are not running the countries in which they reside..
41. Andris Heks ?(CONTINUED) the state monopoly power from the rights of its citizens.
42. Robert Tobias? Have you disregarded the question of economic and political power which generally favour some groups in society?
43. David Sanderson ?It's always easy to find examples of people who behave badly but not so easy to show they presents some much wider generalised threat.
44. sheree waks? The late Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid had great problems with the Saudi support for spread of Wahhabi ideology throughout Indonesia as well
45. David Sanderson? This is worse than I expected. Peter sounds awfully like Mark Latham.
46. David Sanderson? You should meet the Christian sects around the mountains who ostracise people who leave.
47. Bach-ing Madeline ?Peter has a right to speak his truth as he sees it. If you don't like it that is indeed your problem not his. And illustrates his points perfectly
48. Andris Heks? Robert Tobias. This is an important issue that Peter does not much address.
49. simon last name? for david sanderson this is what it is all about... being able to say what you think. IF you do not like what you hear... switch off
50. sheree waks? but other religions, cults etc (with some exceptions) generally don't support death as the punishment for leaving the fold
51. David Sanderson? I'm critiquing Peter, this is a normal thing to do isn't it?
52. Robert Tobias? AS someone who hails originally from South Africa I am all too aware how the 'tools' of Western Civilisation may be used to destroy a range of identities. Comments?
53. Andris Heks? Enrico Brik: Spot on!
54. simon last name? yes it is, and it is your right, but it is also Pete's right to say what he reasons
55. David Sanderson? What reputable person denigrates everything about 'Western civilisation'? Please name names.
56. Antony Carr? Lee Kuan Yew noted that the integration of his society was proceeding well until the revival is Islam in the 1980s. He said Christians are law abiding. (He has an evangelical Christian granddaughter}
57. Andris Heks ?Peter you overemhasise the importance of identity politics at the expense of unequal distribution power in Western civilisation in sabotaging democracy!
58. David Sanderson? It's always easy to pick a fringe figure and get offended by what they say but what's the point?
59. Bach-ing Madeline? The fringe is fraying back and destroying the fabric of society
60. Enrico Brik? Totally agree Peter - we social democrats and left liberals should insist on rejecting irrelevant considerations in forming normative judgements
61. David Sanderson? Peter has utterly failed to establish that there is a general, significant threat, picking out people who offend you doesn't do that.
62. Antony Carr? Multiculturalism emphases group rights rather than individual rights and thus leads to identity politics.
63. Bach-ing Madeline ?Agree @Antony Carr
64. Antony Carr? Peter, your introductory remarks were excellent. I agree with everything you said.
65. Antony Carr? That afternoon tea looks awfully English - it's an example of Cultural Imperialism!!
66. Barak Atzmon-Simon ?It is indeed very white, but some brown is represented there too
67. sheree waks ?I attended a Hizb ut-Tahrir demonstration in Lakemba as an interested observer a few years ago.They are a radical Islamist group banned in some countries incl germany It was disconcerting when the
68. sheree waks ?only female speaker was heard but not seen. Do you think groups like this that stay on the right side of the law in public (not necessarily private)should be banned or tolerated?
69. James Silkman? I believe we are entering a second age of enlightenment.
70. Bach-ing Madeline ?@Antony Carr... Wacissst!
71. john overall? so how are we going to get of the leftist ideology of identity politics
72. john overall? get rid of?
73. David Sanderson? This is a selective reading of the Bible and Christianity.
74. David Sanderson? Our courts in the not too distant past ruled according to Bible understandings, not dissimilar to Sharia law
75. Robert Tobias? Not all forms of Islam should be characterised as you have Peter.
76. Sarah Shrubb? Thanks David Sanderson. I agree with your comments.
77. David Sanderson ?Is Trump a major threat or not? Don't slide over this.
78. Bach-ing Madeline ?Aggressive much. Progessive much?
79. David Sanderson? Catholics have long run identity politics but apparently that's not a problem? What is this really all about?
80. sheree waks? richard kemp, not david
81. David Sanderson? Trotskyite's have always done that! But they are not a general threat to freedom of speech.
82. Andris Heks ?David Anderson: I agree with you about this exageration. It deflect pinpointing the real threat to freedom: the 1% vs 99% inequality in power!
83. Bach-ing Madeline? No I was talking about Obama @Peter Baldwin
84. Andris Heks ?I meant to say David Sanderson.
85. David Sanderson? Trump is not a threat to democracy in America? and is damaging to it around the world?
86. Climaterealistsbondi ?It is the democrat who instigated coup by russa gate, false impeachment, .
87. climaterealistsbondi? Were is your proof trump wants to be a dictator ?
88. David Sanderson? Peter is wrong about Ramsey.
89. Bach-ing Madeline? Arbiter of right and wrong now. All knowing. Omnipotent?
90. David Sanderson? Yes, France has failed at multiculturalism and has created the problem of resentful minorities.
91. Tony MORROW? Peter addressing the commentary of 30 mins ago
92. David Sanderson? Really Peter? Centuries of history of Christians (eg Popes) attempting to impose themselves over temporal rulers is to be ignored?
93. climaterealistsbondi? Tolerance of the intolerance of Islam is what is likely to send us back to a new Dark Age. To allow the denigration of our own Judeo-Christian society is cultural suicide.
94. Bach-ing Madeline? There are many Christians who would dispute the veracity of the Catholic Church and the Popes as being Christian though
95. Andris Heks? Deep south fundamentalist Christian supporters of Trump in USA are as virulent enemies of democracy as islamic theocracy and China's autocracy
96. David Sanderson? The evangelicals religious liberties are under threat? Really?
Comment by Andris Heks (added after the live video session)
Peter, below are my replies to your background articles to this lifestream. First, I give a quote from you each time and then I comment.
I read your lengthy articles up to your point about the Canadian PM.
Overall it seems to me that while you make some interesting points you overemphasise the importance of identity politics in undermining Western Civilisation and you underemphasise the importance of inequalities of power.
‘According to the ideologues being white is more than a source of unearned advantages. It is a grave moral pathology, a kind of original sin, from which only partial redemption is available by being a dutiful and unquestioning 'ally' of those deemed oppressed.’
This is a put-down ideological distortion to the view that dominant white civilisation has actually been responsible for major crimes against humanity, such as slavery, even though it was also a white minority who fought hard and eventually won to stop the legality of 19th centaury slave trade. Whites and all people irrespective of their skin colour should stand up shoulder to shoulder for justice for all people irrespective of skin colour, race and religion.
‘Western civilization is an oppressor on the global scale, historically and today responsible for just about all of the worlds ills, its supposed virtues such as political and intellectual freedoms are a mask and rationalization for the exercise of naked power, as is the very term ‘civilization’ which is really just an affirmation of white supremacy.’
This is an exaggeration but with a great deal of truth in it. A critical addendum to it is that the greatest threat to freedom of speech currently is coming from China’s autocratic regime. This threat was in turn largely created and magnified by the antidemocratic transnational Western capitalists allying with Chinese State capitalism.
Se my play about this: ‘Ai Weiwei’s Tightrope Act’ on you tube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pib8v6PBSQ&t=374s
‘Tyranny of guilt’ – Another too ‘clever’ defence mechanism by defenders of the Western status quo to discredit those who seek the acknowledgement by the West of its imperialist past, such as ‘White man’s burden’ and of the need to seek to remedy for lingering injustices universally. See such denial and defence of injustice in John Howard’s notion of ‘black armband’ in relation to activists for justice for Aborigines and just about all of Andrew Bolt’s writings and claims.
‘the emergence of a de facto alliance of autocratic great powers based around China and Russia.’
The Western responsibility for its autocratic global transnational capitalists is a major factor in handing power over to their fellow enemies of democracy, China’s regime.
‘If the civilization we inhabit is this bad, then any attempt to present it in a better light, especially in the education systems, must be fiercely resisted. To worry about its survival is not just unwarranted, but racist.’
Complete nonsense!
It is not a matter of presenting civilisation in better light; but it is the need to acknowledge its flaws and then attempt to overcome them.
‘there is one overriding immediate priority: to defend and secure freedom of speech against the ever-expanding array of encroachments on it from both state and non-state sources.’
I agree with this. The issue, however, is to identify the most important existing threats to and the under miners of substantive v token freedom of speech and address them effectively.
‘inclusion within the fold of 'universal humankind' on the basis of shared human attributes;… for respect 'in spite of' one's differences.’
Yes, to Sonia Kruks on this above! In particular : yes, to respect IN SPITE of differences not necessarily ‘respect for oneself AS different.’
‘I see the left and right-wing variants of identarianism as evil twins, rather than polar opposites.’
I agree with this Peter, but not the video example you gave. I agreed with the Congresswoman.
I agree that as long as there is systematic discrimination against blacks, black representatives should work for the elimination of this. And so should non-blacks. And oppressed blacks should also oppose the oppression of non-blacks, as Martin Luther King did and Ghandi did in reference to the Indians. But both of these latter leaders focused primarily on their own groups and rightly so because they had their hands full in trying to help in liberating them. That did not mean they were not universal in their opposition to injustice.
Similarly I agree that in Australia we don’t need ‘coconut Aboriginal’ leaders who help to maintain discrimination against Aborigines.
‘an intellectual culture that demands acceptance of self-loathing as a mark of virtue and systematically vilifies those who dissent;’
On the contrary Peter, it is the replacement of the subjects of political economy and democracy as necessary parts of education from primary school to Universities and putting technological non-questioning indoctrination in their place at all levels which is a tragedy.
‘An intellectual culture that challenges the wisdom, or even the right of nation states to control their own borders…'
What is legitimately challenged is the closing of the borders COUPLED with indifference to the plight of refugees, refusing to provide adequate help to the UN HCR and not addressing and not attempting to remedy the causes of the dislocation of more than 80 million people around the world.
‘What might the long-term consequences of this be? Can post-Enlightenment societies of the kind we have come to take for granted survive, and if not what is likely to replace them?’
No, survival can’t be taken for granted and if it is, it is likely to result in the Chinese autocratic regime allied with autocratic capitalism coming to rule the world.
See this explored in my play on you tube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pib8v6PBSQ&t=371s
(‘AI WEIWEI’S TIGHTROPE ACT’)
‘intellectual mutation that has transformed one of the West’s principle virtues – its capacity for self-reflection – into morbid self-loathing.’
I don’t think that self-loathing is the major obstacle. It is rather the ‘comfortable indifference’, the ignorance and alienation of masses from participatory democracy.
The absence of education for democracy and commitment to social democracy that values and reconciles the common good (social, equal opportunity) and democracy: (substantive freedom of speech and educated choice.)
‘This is a form of society that has delivered an unprecedented combination of freedoms – personal, intellectual and political - together with security against harms and unwarranted restrictions inflicted by state and non-state actors, and broadly-based material prosperity.’
Alas, the above is a beautiful ideal that has always been far from reality. Freedom, security from unwarranted restrictions, material prosperity? For some only, often not for the many. See the increasing 1% vs 99% inequality in power, also prevalent in Western democracies.
‘indeed that any suggestion we have a valuable civilizational legacy is just dog-whistling to white supremacists.’
No, the toxic civilizational legacy is in the power supremacy of the autocratic transnational capitalism over democracy!
‘So Canada has no core identity but is just a jumble of cultures, all equally lovely’
No, Trudeau might just be saying that now the universal human rights beyond narrow nationalism is what are Canada’s values. If you listen to his Trudeau’s talk he clearly points to core values like, openness to one another, compassion and justice, valuing diversity and the new, within the frame of such core values of unity.
‘If ‘white people’ and ‘whiteness’ are vile it follows, needless to say, that so is the Western civilization they created, which the identarians treat as a purely white construct that is the source of most of the world’s problems and maladies.’
This above is creating a straw-man and then bashing it. The issue is not whiteness as such but the traditional dominant white supremacist ideology which determined the course of western imperialism towards Africa, India, China and towards their own non-white minorities, like black slaves.
China’s traditional and currant racial superiority of Chinese over ‘non-yellow’ people is equally repugnant.
Universal values, like freedom of speech and the other great values are great not because they come from a ‘white’ or any skin coloured civilisation but because they value human dignity. Martin Luther King, Ghandi and St Francis of Assisi were human giants because they embraced such values and had roots in different yet convergent civilisations.